Sirotablog
David Sirota is a political journalist and nationally syndicated newspaper columnist at Creators Syndicate. David writes about political corruption, globalization and working-class economic issues often ignored by both of America's political parties.
-
June 29, 2007 8:16 AM
Bad Political Theater Masked As a "Debate" Is Not An Actual Debate
The immigration "debate" was not a debate - it was political theater, and bad political theater at that - a kabuki dance that avoided the real issue. Go over to SquareState.net or ColoradoPols to see what I'm talking about.
-
TAKE ACTION
-
About David Sirota
David Sirota is a political journalist and nationally syndicated newspaper columnist at Creators Syndicate. He is the New York Times bestselling author of Hostile Takeover. He lives in Denver, Colorado. His daily blog can be found at CREDO Action. He contributes regularly to the Denver Post's Web site, is a senior editor at In These Times magazine and is working on his second book. He has been profiled in Newsweek and the Rocky Mountain News and is widely known for his reporting on political corruption, globalization and working-class economic issues often ignored by both of America's political parties. Sirota serves as co-chair of the Progressive States Network, a 501(c)3 organization that supports state legislators and that is a partner of CREDO.
You can subscribe to Sirota's e-mail newsletter by going to davidsirota.com and signing up in the lefthand corner. To find out more about Sirota, download his official biography or see his recent media appearances. You can e-mail him at sirota@credoaction.com.
The views expressed on this blog are his own, and do not necessarily represent the views of Working Assets (publisher of CREDO Action) or the institutions Sirota works for.
-
Recent Sirotablog entries
- Fox News: "Historians Pretty Much Agree" That FDR Prolonged the Great Depression
- Maddow Busts Morgan Stanley Board Member for Conflict of Interest
- Viva Las Vegas?
- Gov. Paterson Is Either Deliberately Deceptive Or Grossly Uninformed
- We WERE Punked
- CO-SEN: Potential Huge Differences Between Candidates Have National Implications
- Kirk as USTR - Changeiness or Change?
- Maddow: Did America Get Punked On the Bailout? Yes...Now Here's What to Do.
- Becerra Turns Down USTR
- In a Recession, Should States Raise Taxes Or Slash Spending?
-
More David Sirota
-
This Modern World
-
February 17, 2009 -
February 10, 2009 -
February 4, 2009 -
January 27, 2009 -
January 20, 2009
-
-
Donations Recipients
-
RSS feeds
Discussion
This bilge about 'trade policy' ignores the very obvious fact that when you put a poor country next to a rich country, people will sneak from poor country to the rich country. And Mexico has always been a poor country, long, long before NAFTA or CAFTA or globalization or free trade or whatever. Ike faced this problem in the 1950's. Was NAFTA the cause ?
Mexico's problems run a lot deeper than NAFTA or CAFTA or globalization. It has been an ethnically stratified society all its history. It has a political culture of rampant corruption. So abolishing NAFTA or CAFTA or globalization will do nothing to make Mexico a first world country.
It is delusional to think that Mexico's poverty is our fault or that there is something we can do to fix it. That is just plain refusing to fight for American workers because you are terrified of seeming 'anti-immigrant' or 'xenophobic'.
If the left will not fight for working Americans, the populist right will. The Democratic Party can most definitely lose in 2008 on this issue.
Kabuki dance? this was a con-game. Any legislation composed in secret and endorsed by the business roundtable, Bush, Trent Lott, Saxby Chambliss and Ted Kennedy was bound to be a steaming pile of crap that deserved to die.
It was made by business for business and that gave it away and the American people rebelled to kill it. Which I might add was a major victory for the American people against corporate America and no thanks to the Democrats who were Bush's biggest supporters on this legislation.
That said, there are several aspects to this immigration problem:
1)Mexico is a oligarchy controlled by about 50 families and they have most of the wealth. NAFTA only exacerbated it this stratification and impoverishment.
2)The Mexican ruling families have always used the U.S. as a dumping ground for its impoverished masses to prevent a rebellion in their country. Its also rapidly turning into a nacro-terrorist state as well.
3) American business and wealthy people(including upper class liberals) love this situation because it provides them with a endless pool of low cost and disposable workers. Business then uses its influence in Congress to gut enforcement provisions in the law to ensure that their racket continues with no interference. So now businesses operate in the open employing illegals with not a worry in the world.
4)Both political parties are severely compromised by corporate cash infusions and it shows with their refuse to cancel NAFTA, PNTR, and pressure Mexico to reform. And worse push through even more crooked trade legislation as in the case of the Pelosi-Rangel legislation.
5) Furthermore the Democrats have two other problems:
a) Rank and file refuse to vote out corporate compromised members and in fact vote them back in time after time. Their innate stupidity or mindless loyalty has ensured the peoples party will stay the money party :-(.
b)The party is also infested with loads of hippy liberal open-border types that are against any sort of border and port security. This has caused the Democrats be silent on the SPP and the NAFTA superhighway and made them useless in regards to national soverignty as they don't believe in it.
6)This all adds up to a one big ugly mess. We have a congress beholden to corporate America and a increasingly alienated populace who feels there is no one to represent them.
Both parties need to go.
The only thing that ever got talked about in this fraudulent bill in Washington was borders and amnesty. The truth is the so-called populists on the "right" are not really fighting for the working class but as always giving the voters a false sense of "security" by stirring up temporary insanity of divide and conquer to keep the wealthy elite happy as can be and socialize poverty and terrorism just like the jihadists. Like "abortion", guns, gays and lesbians, creationism vs evolution, school prayer, school vouchers, death penalty, flag burning, terrorism, patriotism, affirmative action, etc ... the so-called "immigration debate" was only meant to stir up people's emotions. Let's face it. People are suffering because of the economic policies of "free" trade, deregulation, privatization, offshoring, outsourcing, tax breaks for companies that shaft their workers, not raising the minimum wage and rewarding companies that depress wages against the working/middle class, etc ... Moreover, the US has always supported repressive regimes in Latin America that say yes to "free" trade and yes to dumping and amnesty. Hugo Chavez is demonized by the American media and government for standing up to "free" trade and pulling more people in his country out of poverty so that they won't make a desperate run for the US unlike Mexican president Calderon who thanks to US aid and help got to steal the election last year. The reason the bill DIED was the rightwing finally realized that the bill being chalkful of economic policies that would actually WEAKEN the border between the US and Mexico was too much this time for them to bear that they finally were forced to come clean and kill it.
Neither the right nor the left will fix the immigration problem. It's time to vote 3rd party all the way and relegate these two major parties to the dustbin !
Waltc, you are absolutely right.
The globalists in both parties were roundly defeated by the nationalist masses asserting that a sovereign nation has the right and the duty to control its borders whether it pleases foreigners or not. The globalists in both parties were roundly defeated by the nationalist masses asserting that it is the duty of their elected representatives to look out for their interests first instead of cheap labor corporatism or hippie one-worlders. And as you say national sovereignty is a concept for which the left has little use but had better find some instead of silly nonsense about unionizing the world or asking working Americans to accept immiserisation until Mexico is as rich as America. The bus on 'proletarian internationalism' left the station in July, 1914 and it never came back.
Free trade and NAFTA worsened Mexico's problems but it did not create them. The structural weaknesses of Mexican society date from Iturbide and Santa Anna, not from NAFTA and Calderon. They were apparent when small American citizen volunteer armies routinely trounced huge, professional Mexican armies in the Mexican War despite Mexico having on paper every advantage.
It is exactly why the K Street deal was shelved. Lou Dobbs has the entrenched elites scared.
Good.
The problem I have with the articles David cites is they make it sound like we forced NAFTA on Mexico and Canada, which is not what happened. The Mexican political leadership had their economists look at NAFTA and sign off on it just like our economists signed off on NAFTA. The political leadership of Mexico negotiated, signed, and ratified NAFTA just like our political leadership.
Blaming the US for the economic problems created by NAFTA in Mexico is extremely disingenuous considering Mexico knew exactly what they were getting into when they negotiated it. That is especially true given that, as someone else pointed out, the problems in Mexico predate NAFTA by centuries.
The problem that this bill represents is the fact that our nation relies on nothing more than "fast food" "solutions" for everything never mind that those "solutions" are the cause of today's ills. Building more border fences will not erase the fact that "free" trade is directly related to illegal immigration. Our current consumerism is heavily dependent on those "illegals". Our corporatists want to maximize their profits by replacing honest workers with ILLEGAL labor because they know that unlike the working class in America, those immigrants have no clue about workers' rights and safety laws or for that matter labor unions and the tremendous benefits. They know that those immigrants will settle for near-slave wages now that the US government and media support corrupt regimes who in turn force their citizens to go desperate and become illegals. Our religious zealots want illegals because they know that illegals will go socially desperate and fall for extreme left or right positions on social hot button issues and further ignore their own economic plight that is causing them to be desperate. The same can be said of most politicians left and right. Our economic and foreign policies have killed the working and middle class long before this immigration mess set in. Putting up a border wall will do nothing to resolve the economic plight in this country let alone Mexico's. Border fence or none, the fact remains that our economic and foreign policies must be fixed first. Relying on a "fast food" "solution" such as border fence will do nothing to stop the economic plight in America and it will do nothing to stop immigrant trafficking across the NAFTA superhighway. The fact still remains and will continue to remain that fixing our broken US policies first and foremost is severely needed. Moreover, until the US government and media are forced by the voters to stop supporting regimes that dump their own citizens into this country as illegals, no amount of fencing will be worth jackshit.
Chris V, you may be a fake liberal but face it. Clinton along with both parties rushed the deal right through Congress and relied on their favorite corrupt regimes to cave in on it despite Clinton's promise in 1992 not to do so. Why don't you try telling South Carolina the TRUTH about "free trade" if you care? Of course, the US-Canada Free Trade Agreement which started this whole mess from 1985 with NAFTA to top it off in 1993 pretty much erased the borders in America. Shifting the NAFTA blame solely to Mexico is just as disingenuous given that the corrupt leaders in Mexico who supported NAFTA were aided by the US government and the media in the first place.
Frederick,
First off, where did I write that the blame for NAFTA rested solely with Mexico? The fact is that I did not write that and you just made it up.
I wrote that blaming the US for the problems in Mexico as a result of NAFTA was disingenuous since Mexico itself agreed to the deal. NAFTA was negotiated by all three countries. And all three countries share the blame for it.
How about Mexico, the US, and Canada EACH take the responsibility for the economic problems in their countries created by that bill. EACH certainly knew their situations best and EACH knew what they were getting into. EACH country signed on the dotted line EQUALLY.
Frankly, I find it patronizing and insulting to say that the US holds all the responsibility, as if Mexico isn't smart enough or good enough to look out for its own interests.
That said, this whole discussion is pointless considering the majority of the problems in Mexico predate NAFTA. Mexico has been fucked since it was a colony of Spain, which was way before NAFTA came into effect in 1994, just in case you weren't aware.
Why don't you bitch at Spain since they did most of the damage.
Second off, I'm not a "fake liberal" because I was not interested in supporting that piece of shit immigration bill.
I could just as easily call you a "fake liberal" for supporting a bill pushed by George Bush and the corporate, globalist Republicans - a racist bill designed to screw poor, uneducated black and white workers by pitting them against illegal immigrants in order to lower wages for everyone.
And finally, if you want to insult me, then just insult me. Skip that "fake liberal" crap. Say what you really think, you goddamn, passive-aggressive blowhard.
Once again Frederick Johnson peddles the juvenile leftism that blames big bad America for the problems that other countries have. If only America would do this, that, or the other thing the world would be paradise. It is juvenile leftism indeed because blaming others for your problems is what children do, not adults.
As ever, children like Frederick Johnson and GrantBurkeVT insist on blaming America for the chronic political problems that have existed throughout the history of the entire Spanish-Portuguese speaking world. Spain, Portugal, Mexico, the Philippines, Brazil, Argentina, etc have all had the same dictatorship vs republic, regionalism vs centralism, clericalism vs secularism, modernism vs reaction crises which, when applied to societies with sharp ethnic stratification, create a pattern of chronic political instability. Whining that this is because the US "always supports repressive regimes in Latin America" is to be an ignorant, sloganeering 60's hippie. NAFTA didn't create Santa Anna or Maximilian or Franco or Vargas or Salazar or Peron.
Frederick Johnson and GrantBurkeVT, it is apparent that aside from vapid hippie slogans you are as ignorant as planks on the subject of the political history of the Spanish-Portuguese speaking world. Your idiotic argument that the American worker is just plain going to have to get used to immiserisation until the US has made Latin America perfect is as brainless as suggesting that the American worker is just going to have to get used to offshoring and outsourcing until the the US makes China and India as rich as America.
Chris V.
Frankly, I find it patronizing and insulting to say that the US holds all the responsibility, as if Mexico isn't smart enough or good enough to look out for its own interests.
That said, this whole discussion is pointless considering the majority of the problems in Mexico predate NAFTA. Mexico has been fucked since it was a colony of Spain, which was way before NAFTA came into effect in 1994, just in case you weren't aware.
Why don't you bitch at Spain since they did most of the damage.
Chris, you are absolutely correct. Juvenile leftists blame America for the fact that Latin American culture was formed by the two nations in Europe that most completely shut out every progressive religious, economic, intellectual, scientific, and political movement between 1500 and 1800. Spain and Portugal completely shut out the Protestant Reformation, the Scientific Revolution, the Enlightenment, freedom of inquiry, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, the Industrial Revolution, and all that "the Rights of Man" stuff. Really, it wasn't until the death of Franco and the fall of the Portuguese dictatorship that Spain and Portugal joined the modern world.
The Spanish-Portuguese speaking worlds inherited a reactionary, anti-intellectual, violent, anti-commercial, dysfunctional culture based on Paris Hilton idle rich values. I don't know who but I once read a distinction someone made between "constructive colonies" and "exploitative colonies". Constructive colonies are built by people who honor work and don't mind getting their hands dirty. Exploitative colonies are created by the arrogant, violent younger sons of the aristocracy looking to be aristocrats in their own right atop a forced labor society. The difference between William Penn and Cortez. It was Latin America's colossal misfortune to be based on "exploitative colonies".
It is no surprise that Duck In Cover and Chris V are in total denial mode for refusing to face the fact that our country relies on "fast food" solutions. Yes, Latin America may have inherent issues that the US cannot solve. However, aggravating them with "free" trade deals and financially and militarily supporting those corrupt regimes will not make Latin America solve those issues but in fact make them worse. It's like imposing gun control and making law abiding gun owners criminals. It does not matter how many or how high you build those fences. The fact remains that "free" trade and US-backed support of corrupt and/or oppressive regimes that drive their own citizens off their own lands and into this country as illegals will have to be STOPPED first and foremost before we can make phoney debates about fence building. If Chris V had read my posts, he would have known that I am no supporter of that bill. In fact, Chris V and Duck in Cover already admit their support of "free" trade and oppressive regimes in Latin America by BLATANTLY IGNORING the fact that the US government and media were the MAJOR factors. Had the US government and media not meddled with Latin America's affairs, the people in Latin America would have had a better say and there would be far fewer illegals to tackle. Moreover, it would have then been difficult for the US to bear the burden that it is currently receiving as a result. Right now however, the US will continue to face difficulty from Latin America no matter how high or how many fences it builds until it comes clean and quits relying on "fast food" "solutions" for everything.
Anyone who blindly expects the populist "right" to fix this immigration mess is a cuckoo for not realizing that they started it first. In any case, here's how the rightwing has been spinning the debate and what you can do about it:
Framing Versus Spin: Rockridge as opposed to Luntz
I'd say it's about time we all killed the already bankrupt rightwing "conservative" ideology. Moreover, any progressive or independent who wants to get a grip on the immigration issue might want to refer to these two articles to be prepared and not get divided.
The Framing of Immigration
Crucial Issues Not Addressed in the Immigration Debate
Frederick Johnson now piles lying on top of ignorant hippie sloganeering.
The fact remains that "free" trade and US-backed support of corrupt and/or oppressive regimes that drive their own citizens off their own lands and into this country as illegals will have to be STOPPED first and foremost before we can make phoney debates about fence building.
Fool, for the 10,000th time the US is not in any way, shape, or form to blame for the failures of the Spanish-Portuguese speaking culture zone to adapt to the modern world. Spain and Portugal only did in the '70s. To insist that we are is Chomsky for Dummies.
In fact, Chris V and Duck in Cover already admit their support of "free" trade...
Now, lies on top of ignorance. But the two go together because an immature mind believes what it wants to believe. An immature mind cannot take responsibility for the failures of the Spanish-Portuguese speaking world and can only salve its ego by blaming a bogeyman.
... and oppressive regimes in Latin America by BLATANTLY IGNORING the fact that the US government and media were the MAJOR factors.
Why does the sloganeering hippie not understand the concept of grownup responsibility and people making their own choices ? You sound like the type who was foolishly insisting four years ago that if only America would stop supporting 'oppressive governments' in the Muslim world (as is the Muslim would itself would support any that weren't) democracies would bloom across the Muslim world.
Frederick Johnson, you seem to mirror the neocon idiocy that everybody, everywhere is deep down inside an American. You refuse like a child to comprehend that other cultures have other agendas and sometimes those agendas make it impossible to adapt to the modern world. Like the way the Muslim world flatly refuses to accept religious tolerance, freedom of inquiry, freedom of speech, and the emancipation of women.
Had the US government and media not meddled with Latin America's affairs, the people in Latin America would have had a better say and there would be far fewer illegals to tackle.
Will your brain every comprehend that Latin America's problems didn't begin with the "US government and media" or free trade or NAFTA ? They began with Cortez and Columbus and Pizarro. They began by basing societies on the very worst cultural model Europe of the time had to offer. It was the US good fortune to be based on the most scientifically, economically, culturally, organizationally advanced society Europe of the time had to offer. So cut the hippie crap that Latin American poverty is because America somehow stole something from Latin America.
It will always be in the interest of failed societies (and Mexico shows every sign of turning into a narcoterrorist failed state) to ship their excess population to more successful societies. Illegal immigration is very much in Mexico's interest as a safety valve and a source of income. In fact, the biggest source of income for Mexico after oil. So isn't it stupid to think that Obrador would have had a different policy than what is obviously in Mexico's interest ?
Hear Hear Fred,
Lame brained zombies such as Duck-In-Cover are just trying to invent excuses to cover up today's problems. The truth is people can change and so can countries. Today, however, our government and media are controlled by the same corporate crooks and the neocons and neolibs who love to pit the working class folks against themselves. Duck In Cover no doubt loves to use illegal aliens to clean his ass and do his house-cleaning even as he sits and drools over Fred Thompson starring in "Law and Order" crap and posts lies and bullshit on the net. The rightwing kooks will always invent past excuses to cover up today's ills that they created which explains why the lame brained Duck will go out on a limb by trying to confuse past history with the present. For all the bullshit that lame brained Duck rambles about responsibility, it's just as reckless and irresponsible of the US to reward countries in Latin America that promote irresponsibility. On "free" trade, the US always writes them up first thanks to MNCs and K-Street. The corrupt leaders in Mexico wouldn't be able to accept this deal if the US hadn't offered it all to them in the first place. Even back in the 1950s, Eisenhower didn't solve the immigration mess by building a border wall but by enforcing existing border patrol, cutting down on corruption and bribery both in the US and Mexico, and making employers that hired illegals accountable. And for all the talk about left hippies, maybe lame brained Duck might want to stay in Venuzuala for a few months and get a life and take his head out of the Fred Thompson toilet. He would eventually realize that all Latin American countries that are governed by US-backed conservatives are the ones dumping illegals into the country whereas countries with left-leaning leaders do not dump their citizens into America as illegals. But lame brained Duck would much rather keep his slave labor and then cry about immigrants when he himself has plenty at his disposal. Fred, I'd say the populist "right" is just a coverup to protect their favorite wealthy cronies. At this point, I'd say forget Mexico and Latin America. You are correct that we need to fix our policies first and foremost and quit feeding the corrupt officials outside this country.
So ignorant hippie I and ignorant hippie II are both in agreement that they will do nothing to relieve the labor glut that is destroying the livelihoods of working Americans until American has somehow made Latin America perfect. Tell me, ignorant hipppie I and ignorant hippie II, is the fact that wages are lower in India and China (which makes outsourcing possible) also the fault of big bad America ? Will ending outsourcing and offshoring have to wait until America stops supporting 'oppressive governments' in China and India ? Idiots, most of the world is poor. That is always the way it has been. Latin America has always been poorer than the US. If either of you had ever had an education you would know that.
If only America would stop supporting 'repressive governments', Latin America would be as rich as the US. Do you seriously believe that 60's sloganeering adolescent slop ? And as for people from left wing countries not emigrating to America, a lot of recent Cuban-Americans would beg to differ. Or hadn't your brain noticed the steady exodus to Miami of the Venezuelan middle and upper classes ?
While hippie left one-worlders insist that America take the blame for Latin American problems, the populist right cares only about American workers, not any 'all workers' crap. The Mexican political system has been a brothel all its history. We didn't corrupt them. They started out that way. To preach that if we refused to deal with foreign governments that do not embody perfect virtue they would become as noble as we think they ought to be is to treat foreigners like children who must be disciplined by withholding dessert or being sent to bed early. If anyone is being imperially arrogant here, it is our resident hippies who want to be Great White Missionary to their Little Brown Children and preach uplift to the heathen savage. Foreigners aren't children who we are supposed to take responsibility for. It is our job to mind our own business and deal with them as they are.
Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover would much rather be a rightwing KKK NAZI as he admits. If I'm to be called a hippie for telling the truth and joining the forces ready to hit the real issues hard as hell, so be it. Rightwing NAZI KKKs such as Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover is a SORE LOSER who can't accept the fact that there is no populist "right". In fact, the fake populist "right" that exists is happy as hell to kill all the borders and then lie about promising to fight for a border fence that will be torn down anyway. Like any other social issue, the fake populist "right" has NO INTENTION of actually carrying out the task of solving the problem and putting the issue to rest. In fact, their only job is to aggravate the problem and then find people they hate to blame just like Nixon would always do. The NAZI "right" knew that immigration "reform" would fail because they knew that the only way at real reform on immigration was to actually fix the economic and foreign policies that they created all these problems in the first place. Like any other social issue, the goal of the fake populist "right" is to let it fail, keep the pot simmering, and then provoke voters into voting against their own economic interests by being fooled into believing that the same fake populist "right" that failed before will succeed if they're elected/reelected and of course the cycle of MISUSING failure to usurp power continues.
Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover is so scared that he got his cover BLOWN away for being a motherfucking liar that he is. Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover loves to exploit countries with low wages just like racist slave-owners did in the old days. China and India are completely different from the US in terms of culture and lifestyle besides. When there are plenty of skilled workers in this country ready to do their job, importing "cheap" labor from overseas is slavery and racism. I may have a Confederate Flag on my motorcycle but I'm not a racist like Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover. In fact, the KKK motherfuckers had no business stealing the Confederate Flag and giving it a bad rap. Notice also how Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover covers up the fact that Cubans are automatically given "legal" status in this country even if they enter the country ILLEGALLY. Spankinrankin, it doesn't matter when the Mexicans started getting corrupt. The fact is that for the past few decades, the US government and media have not only turned themselves corrupt but are also feeding the corrupt machines in Mexico and the governments in Latin America that they back. Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover doesn't want to talk about the past few decades that are filled with real culprits. Also, notice how Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover now flip flops and admits that he LOVES it when the US government and media create a war between the US vs Latin America. In the end, the working and middle class on both sides LOSE. Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover doesn't even know what a hippie is to begin with and he's only using the name to desperately cover up the pounding he's getting now that he's LOSING. If he really cared to solve the problem and put it to rest he wouldn't be doing a Globe and Trotters game of "wedge" issues and fake "debates" like the motherfuckers on Capital Hill and the media. Instead, he'll keep drinking rightwing koolaid and licking the fake populist "right" rectums even as his ASS goes down in FLAMES.
Frederick Johnson :
Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover would much rather be a rightwing KKK NAZI as he admits. If I'm to be called a hippie for telling the truth and joining the forces ready to hit the real issues hard as hell, so be it. Rightwing NAZI KKKs such as Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover is a SORE LOSER
You can always tell the geniune ignorance of someone by his inability to form real thoughts or express himself (or in Frederick's case, stamp his feet and make rhythmic noises) without obscenity. Civilized, educated people with impulse control can talk without obscenities. Ignorant, vulgar people with the impulse control of a dog pissing at a tree can't.
That's the problem with the hippie mindset. The hippie thinks that conviction makes something true. He is too sincere in his beliefs to base them on actually knowing anything (Here's a little test. I am going to name seven Latin American rulers. If you can name the country they ruled for even three of them, I will be stunned. Here goes. Vargas, Fujimori, Diaz, Trujillo, Galtieri, Banzer, Iturbide.). He is too self-indulgent to actually do the work of learning anything. That is why his knowledge base usually consists entirely of slogans and bogeymen.
So when the hippie comes across someone who actually knows what he is talking about and can back up his arguments with facts, the hippie looks stupid. That makes the little hippie mad so he responds with a tantrum of screaming obscenities and insults.
The point remains. 'Thinking' as you do that we can rearrange the political culture of the Spanish-Portuguese speaking world is to play Great White Father to his little brown children.
You can always tell the geniune ignorance of someone by his inability to form real thoughts or express himself (or in Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover's case, stamp his feet and make rhythmic noises everytime he is exposed for being an BLATANT LIAR AND/OR HYPOCRITE) and MISUSE words such as hippie. Unlike Duck-In-His-Bunker-Cover, civilized, educated people with impulse control can talk without misusing words such as hippies. Ignorant, vulgar people such as Duck-In-His-Bunker-Cover with the impulse control of a dog pissing at a tree can't. In fact, rightwing lunatics can't handle the truth and will resort to playing the victimization game knowing that they are wrong.
That's the problem with the rightwing lunatic mindset. The fake populist "right" thinks that fake conviction makes something true and will resort to lies, spinning, and deception to make people "feel" that it is acceptable despite the fact that a lie is a lie. Moreover, the rightwing lunatic tries to play the victimization game and use FAILURE to score points and win. He thinks cowardice and misdirected draconianism is "moral" regardless of the glaring TRUTH. He thinks that "law and order" comes from the sky regardless of the fact that the MISleaders who screw the country with bad economic and foreign policies are the real culprits responsible for lack of true law and order. He is too HYPOCRITICAL to base his beliefs on actually knowing anything. He is too self-indulgent to actually do the work of learning anything and refuses to look at the real systematic causes and simply reacts to symptoms as is the case with Duck-In-His-Bunker-Cover. That is why his knowledge base usually consists entirely of slogans and bogeymen. As a matter of fact, as GrantBurkeVT earlier pointed out that just like cultural issues such as "abortion", guns, gays and lesbians, creationism vs evolution, school prayer, school vouchers, death penalty, flag burning, terrorism, patriotism, affirmative action, etc ... the so-called "immigration debate" was only meant to stir up people's emotions".
So when the rightwing lunatics come across someone who actually knows what he is talking about and can back up his arguments with facts, the rightwing lunatic not only looks stupid but completely contradicts itself and exposes itself as the bald faced liar it is. Moreoever, the rightwing lunatic tries to change the subject and create its own fake "debate" such as amnesty vs. none when in fact, the undocumented workers will be kept regardless of amnesty or none thanks to the economic and foreign policies by our reckless government. The rightwing lunatic is hostile to taking on the corrupt system that is the real culprit and will do anything to make people think only about the symptoms and not the problems. In fact, the rightwing lunatic will say anything entirely ludicrous to cover up the flaws of a corrupt system by trying to distract others with phony cultural issues. That makes the poor little rightwing lunatic mad so he responds with a tantrum of covering up with more lies and irrelevant bullshit followed by blaming the victims and screaming obscenities and insults as is the case with Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover.
The fact remains that when rightwing lunatics such as Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover refuse to come out and face reality, history only repeats itself in the worst case scenarios.
The amnesty "debate" was a big JOKE all along just like the debate over giving "driver's licenses to undocumented workers" was. Driver's license or none, illegal immigrants will drive anyway even if they're caught and locked up. Ditto for amnesty except that amnesty or none, they'll still be working for the pittance they'll settle for. Amnesty is just a cosmetic change. Nothing will change about them as far as their economic realities are concerned. Liberals will use them to get their votes while conservatives will use them to set the slippery slope to finish depressing wages, labor unions, safety and environmental protection laws, and human rights altogether. No doubt they'll continue to engage the electorate in the phoney cultural populism "debates" to achieve their ends. Sad.
Frederick, I understand that you needed very badly at that moment to stop sounding ignorant. Not having any idea how, you desparately began quoting me. Well, that's a good start and in your case, the faintest glimmer of human intelligence.
The hippies here insist foolishly that Mexico's problems are all the fault of NAFTA and globalization. Anyone who actually has read a book in his life knows that Mexico's problems have been chronic all its history. And accepting downwards mobility for working Americans until they are fixed is NOT an answer working Americans will accept. Abolishing NAFTA won't fix problems that stretch all the way back to the beginnings of Mexican history. The 'economic and foreign policies of our government' did not create the chronic problems you will find throughout the Spanish-Portuguese speaking world. If you actually knew anything about history and economics and culture instead of repeating brain dead slogans that would be obvious.
I know you were hopeless at the seven name test above so let's make this easy for you. What country was Peron ruler of ? Can you at least answer that one before lecturing us about how American policies are to blame for all of Latin America's problems ?
By the way, I am waiting for our resident hippies to start insisting that America stop supporting 'oppressive governments' in China and India to stop offshoring and outsourcing. Well ?
Duck-In-His-Bunker-Cover, we all understand that you needed very badly at that moment to stop sounding ignorant, racist, and hypocritical. Not having any idea how, you desperately continue to insist that you're on top of things and can't help the fact that the fake populist "right" works with globalists, you post irrelevant bullshit. Well, you might as well come clean and admit your FAILURE rather than kill what's left of your faintest glimmer of human intelligence disappear.
The rightwing lunatics here try to hide the TRUTH that Mexico's problems are all the fault of NAFTA and globalization and would much prefer to simply blame the immigrants. Anyone who actually has read a book in his life knows that even though Mexico's problems have been chronic throughout its history, the US government and media in the past few decades alone made sure that those problems stayed that way in Mexico and Latin America. As a matter of fact, the voters have been tricked into voting for more illegals by the fake populist "right". Any country in Latin America such as Venezuela that turned independent from the US would be labeled as a "threat". The only people in countries like Cuba and Venezuela who would consider leaving are wealthy liars who desperately want to avoid paying their fair share of taxes and would much prefer to enjoy America's current system of tax cuts for the wealthy. As a matter of fact, rightwing dictatorships in Latin America were almost always aided by the US government and media alone from enthronement to "free" trade scams. Moreover, in left and/or independent/moderate regimes, rightwing rebels and militants hell-bent on overthrowing democracies have been and continue to be heavily armed and financed by the US Government and Corporate America alone. The US could have been its own country and grown from inside out instead of relying on SLAVE labor and wars to falsely hype itself as somehow a "superpower". Instead, the US, thanks to fake populist groups on the "right", made it possible for otherwise unacceptable and treasonous policies such as tax cuts for the wealthy, deregulation, privatization, "free" trade, outsourcing, offshoring, wage depression, tax cuts for companies that shaft their own workers, etc ... And accepting downwards mobility for working Americans and coming up with fake bandaid "solutions" is NOT an answer working Americans will accept in the long run as they'll soon find out the easy or hard way that the economic and foreign policies here in America must first be REPAIRED. Building a fence won't fix problems that stretch all the way back to the beginnings of Mexican history either but in fact not only worsen them but also pour them into this country as has been going on for years already. The economic and foreign policies of our government not only aggravated the chronic problems you will find throughout the Spanish-Portuguese speaking world but they also destroyed the working and middle class in America which Lou Dobbs hammers at every time he warns us that the US is going the way of Brazil and Argentina. If you actually knew anything about history and economics and culture instead of repeating brain dead rightwing slogans and sound bites that would be obvious.
I know you were hopeless and fucked up at the fact that you cannot understand reality so let's make this easy for you. Here's a true/false question. Chile's former dictator Augusto Pinochet was not aided by the US?
By the way, in case rightwing lunatic motherfuckers such as Duck-In-His-BUNKER-Cover didn't know, the World Bank rewards countries like China and India that crush its own workers. If it weren't for the US taxpayer money being handed over to oppressive regimes, the US wouldn't be facing major budget crisis at home. I wonder why rightwing lunatics insist that US taxpayer money be wasted on installing and defending oppressive regimes abroad when that same money could be used to protect the well-being of the American workers in this country. I'll bet the voters wouldn't be happy once they found out that the fake populist "right" uses spin, deception, bait-and-switch, and lying to trick them into voting against their own economic and secure well-being.
Fred, Castro by no means is any perfect example of the left. However, he sure beats Hitler and Clinton/Bush any day.
Out here in Florida, security is a joke and the immigration double standards are relentless. Fred, you talked about oppressive regimes. I'd like to add Haiti to the list and yeah, the US has been an ardent supporter of it. Also, you mentioned about Cubans automatically being given legal status. Most of these Cubans are well-to-dos and would much prefer to live the current Wealthy Elite American dream of stealing from the poor and middle class. Overall, if a Cuban comes illegally into the country as was the case with Elian Gonzalez and his mother, the looney right will denounce his deportation hysterically. However, when Haitians enter the country legally, they're over-scrutinized and half the time forcefully deported back. Perhaps Mexico is no different from Haiti.
Unfortunately, it won't matter about the double standards because the liberals will accept any immigrant to prop up their social bases all the while leaving out their real base which are the working middle class while the conservatives will accept any immigrant whose background confirms that they will likely vote for them and help to keep the working middle class Americans economically and financially drowning until they're wiped out. Also, true conservatives would never engage in nation building or doling out taxpayer money to regimes that happen to agree with their ideology and they would not slash and spend recklessly unlike the radical "right". True liberals would not misuse social issues either even as they continue to write off their base which consist of working middle class voters. They would also not engage in the policies of selling out this country in the form of feigning "liberalism" through "free trade". Back in the earlier 20th century, the FDR liberals would actually correct the policies of economic inequality unlike most of today's liberals who think that playing "nice" to the radical right is "liberal" based on false fears that somehow their voters will not appreciate it if they don't bow down to their radical right opponents. Most of today's liberals would much rather try to give the voters therapy lessons in accepting the radical right's economic policies against the working middle class Americans as somehow a "part of nation" rather than give themselves a good name by actually fighting the economic policies of inequality the Rooseveltian style.
Join the Discussion