Sirotablog
David Sirota is a political journalist and nationally syndicated newspaper columnist at Creators Syndicate. David writes about political corruption, globalization and working-class economic issues often ignored by both of America's political parties.
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September 21, 2007 10:48 AM
A Healthy Dose of Reality
The attack against the Moveon ad was an abomination. But I actually think what is also an abomination is all the media/blogospheric huffing and puffing about the whole thing. I just took an informal poll of my friends who don't work in politics...Now, granted, I live far outside of the Washington echo chamber, but I found that not a single one of them has even heard about this supposed earth-shattering controversy. Not. A. Single. One.
So, going forward, let's all remember that we should stay focused on trying to end the war, but that perhaps we should refrain from spending a whole lot of time and resources "pushing back" on this specific "controversy." Let's focus on where the fight is most important. Joe Klein can sit in his nice Washington office telling us that the Moveon ad "controversy" is going to be the most important issue of the 2008 election all he wants - but most people out here in the real world don't have any clue what "controversy" he's even talking about, nor will they ever.
UPDATE: Now, I want to add something: This is a big deal, because it goes way beyond the ad, and to a major presidential candidate pivoting to outright fascism.
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About David Sirota
David Sirota is a political journalist and nationally syndicated newspaper columnist at Creators Syndicate. He is the New York Times bestselling author of Hostile Takeover. He lives in Denver, Colorado. His daily blog can be found at CREDO Action. He contributes regularly to the Denver Post's Web site, is a senior editor at In These Times magazine and is working on his second book. He has been profiled in Newsweek and the Rocky Mountain News and is widely known for his reporting on political corruption, globalization and working-class economic issues often ignored by both of America's political parties. Sirota serves as co-chair of the Progressive States Network, a 501(c)3 organization that supports state legislators and that is a partner of CREDO.
You can subscribe to Sirota's e-mail newsletter by going to davidsirota.com and signing up in the lefthand corner. To find out more about Sirota, download his official biography or see his recent media appearances. You can e-mail him at sirota@credoaction.com.
The views expressed on this blog are his own, and do not necessarily represent the views of Working Assets (publisher of CREDO Action) or the institutions Sirota works for.
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Discussion
And there is no way to end the war unless we get real representation in the senate and house, something that the people do not have at present.
All we have at the moment is a grotesque pay to play system where only the rich and corporations have acess to D.C. politcos.
Its fucking whorefest and is threatening the health of the country and creating problems all over the world for us.
One other thing Sirota, the American people has begged, pleaded, protested, gave money and even voted in your precious Democratic party back into power in order to stop the war.
And all we the people have gotten in a return is a torrent of excuses, cowardly behavior and helping Bush not to mention a new NAFTA.
We may have well voted the GOP back in for all the good the Democrats have done.
So don't blame the activists for not ending the war,they really busted their asses. Its clear Congress wants the war to continue.
What's worse is that even the newly elected Democrats who ran as "populists" actually voted against the people's wishes. So much for a people's party. I'll be happy to not bother wasting my time even voting in 2008 and beyond even if that means that Webb loses. Besides, when we're forced to picked between the two near-identical choices just like in our RIGGED CAPITALISM consumer "market", I might as well save my working hours for better days ahead such as a possibly good accumulation of vacation hours. Whew, I think my chances of upgrading to a top secret clearance are getting better, hehe.
BTW if Move-on wants to rattle the Iraq war sell-out Democrats it ought to run ads calling for the top sell-outs to be primaried.
Nothing gets scares entrenched and corrupt politicos more than a primary and hostile voters.
And I hope Move-on does this, because the Democratic politicos have to pay a serious price for screwing with the voters they way they have been. If they don't the D.C. politicos will see it as green light for them to shaft us even more.
I agree that the attack on MoveOn is an abomination. That's why I just donated $100 to their cause. And apparently, a lot of other people outside of the beltway came to the same conclusion. Bush's remarks and Congress's attacks over this ad have brought in over $1.5 million in new donations to MoveOn. So much for Congress following the will of the people.
https://pol.moveon.org/donate/donate.html
David Sirota worked with Sanders during his career on Capital Hill but even when David should have found out that working with an Independent was a lot better than working as a staffer for a Democrat let alone a Republican, I find it hard to believe that he still has any faith in the Democratic Party. With all the SEVERE DAMAGE the party has done to its own reputation this year alone, there is nothing the Democrats will be able to do throughout the entire year of 2008 to brainwash the voters into forgetting that they were total cowards. 2008, even more than 1968 or 1992, would be the perfect year to start getting voters to HEAVILY vote INDEPENDENT and possibly help a 3rd party candidate win the White House, provided of course that Bush doesn't even cancel that election.
If you want to get your head cut off, give your enemies a sword and stick out your neck. That's what MoveOn did with its "General Betray Us" ad, so it's not surprising that MoveOn is getting whacked. Before discussing the merits of that pompous spectacle of rightesous indignation in the Senate, progressives need to admit that MoveOn fired at the wrong target: that ad should have read "Why is the Commander-in-Chief hiding behind a four-star general?" Defaming a decorated general officer for loyal service to his country, and by proxy defaming all who serve, was as lowdown as it was stupid.
Progressives -- especially those who are disappointed and angry with Congressional Democrats -- need to be smart in how they handle this. Remember 2000? Remember Ralph Nader? Had Nader not been on the ballot, Al Gore would have won the election in the Electoral College as well as in the popular vote. Nader argued that there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between Bush and Gore -- he helped make the perfect the enemy of the good and became the author of a tragedy, aided and abetted by disgruntled Democrats who should have known better. Are we now going to repeat that suicidal self-indulgence, with MoveOn now leading the leap off the cliff?
The Democratic majority in Congress is fragile, and it is a mistake to expect too much of it. It has the power to investigate. It has the votes to move some domestic legislation. It generally has the votes to stop bad legislation. But it lacks the votes to override a veto; in the Senate, it lacks the votes to quash a filibuster. It's not realistic to expect a party with so weak a majority to compel the President to knuckle under on the war.
Barak Obama missed the vote to condemn MoveOn, which was the right thing to do. He also failed to explain why before the vote, which brings his claim of high purpose into question. And Christopher Dodd voted "no," which was the right vote. If the Democrats in the Senate had been smart, they would have boycotted the vote on the grounds they hadn't been elected to waste the Senate's time and prestige on such a matter. That would have been the smart tactical move, but on that matter they were as clueless as MoveOn was when it defamed General Petraeus.
Is there a way out of this? You bet. MoveOn should shut up and keep its sights trained on The Decider. Democrats in Congress should refuse to be suckered into more votes on the merits of newspaper advertisement. And progressives -- all of us -- should redouble our efforts to get more Democrats elected to Congress. In politics as in life in general, greater numbers bring greater courage and lead to greater things. How big a number is required? Majorities on the order of the majorities that passed Social Security, Medicare, and the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Since when did a command performance in front of Congress to defend a President’s policies become a defense of the nation? Is George Bush now considered synonymous with the United States?
“Fragile majority”? “So weak a majority”? “Don’t expect too much”? That’s just more of the same whining excuses we’ve heard ever since we voted them in. And your solution that we better get busy and vote in a larger but still weak majority? No wonder we’re in so much trouble. The democratic party keeps cultivating and encouraging the image of weakness and inability to do anything that the republicans have set them up for and the republicans have contented themselves with total capitulation to the religious right minority and haven’t done anything that mattered or anything that this country actually needed for at least the last 28 years.
Maybe you should consider the fact that if you fail to deliver on any promises (ending the war, hamstringing Bush to stop him from doing any more harm to the nation or starting another Mideast war, working on stopping outsourcing and ways to bring jobs back) you really can’t and shouldn’t expect the votes of those voted based on the promises which went undelivered.
"If you want to get your head cut off, give your enemies a sword and stick out your neck." -jrconner
That's what the Democrats are so fucking good at by caving in like a bunch of PANSIES !
"MoveOn fired at the wrong target: that ad should have read "Why is the Commander-in-Chief hiding behind a four-star general?"" -jrconner
MoveOn has already nailed the president for hiding and misleading and will continue to do so. However, General BETRAYUS was hired as a puppet "General" for the Bush gang and KNOWINGLY DEFENDS the NAZI-In-Chief against the general public. Therefore, BETRAYUS deserves to be pounded !
"Defaming a decorated general officer for loyal service to his country, and by proxy defaming all who serve, was as lowdown as it was stupid." - jrconner
Then explain to me why our NAZI-In-Chief fired our last decorated General officer for his loyal service to this country and REPLACED him with a Bush yesman who was loyal to only the Bush gang and the rest of sellout pols. Moveon.org was 100% to blast that puppet.
"Had Nader not been on the ballot, Al Gore would have won the election in the Electoral College as well as in the popular vote." - jrconner
UTTER NONSENSE !!! We gave the KILLton bastards 8 FUCKING years to prove their FUCKING selves and what did they have to show for it? NAFTA, WTO, GATT, China PNTR, Telecommunications Act of 1996, Right to ABUSE Workers, more privatization, deregulation, and union busting, the 1996 farm bill which further killed small farmers while giving Corporate Farm businesses a head start, bombing HEMP fields, caving in to Big Auto/Oil/Chemical/Agri, etc ... Gore had NOTHING pro-populist to brag about which is why he ended up not only running a non-populist campaign, he even allowed the Lewinsky scandal to FUCK him ! Nader actually HAMMERED Gore for his backdoor pro-corporate support and by hiring LIEberNAZI as his running mate, showed his contempt for the voters by indicating his me-too support on foreign policy. Gore beat Gore. Even as Gore won the popular vote and the Florida vote was RIGGED, Gore REFUSED to challenge the results except for a few counties and even there he was WEAK !
"Nader argued that there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between Bush and Gore -- he helped make the perfect the enemy of the good and became the author of a tragedy" - jrconner
TOTAL BULLSHIT !! Nader simply stated the truth and the Democrats peed in their panties by trying to SHUT HIM DOWN thereby proving how ANTI-DEMOCRATIC these motherfucking thugs were. In 2004, they did even worse by hiring lawyers and slapping FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS to purposely keep Nader off the ballot. Look what happened. Kerry ran an even worse mealy-mouthed campaign compared to Gore or even Dukakis and LOST ! Even in swing states, more voters were ANGRY at the Democrats for showing their anti-Democratic behavior and voted AGAINST John FUCKING Kerry. Even in Ohio and Florida where the election was KNOWINGLY RIGGED and made obvious, Kerry REFUSED to fight the voter fraud and conceded to FASCISM. Well, no matter, the voters gave Democrats another chance just last year and they FUCKING BLEW IT and continue to live up to and STRENGTHEN Nader's truth that there is not a dime's difference between either the Ds or Rs.
"The Democratic majority in Congress is fragile, and it is a mistake to expect too much of it. It has the power to investigate." - jrconner
It doesn't matter if the Democrats have a SUPER majority in Congress. There is a lesson in politics called MAKING DO WITH WHAT YOU GOT and USE IT OR LOSE IT. The Republicans, since 1980, have no problem RAPING and FUCKING the Democratic Majority in Congress and they've been winning on their ideological turf because they learned to USE what they had and make the best of it whereas the Democrats chose to happily LOSE what the voters gave to them and have always REFUSED to USE IT.
"It has the votes to move some domestic legislation. It generally has the votes to stop bad legislation." - jrconner
Yeah but the Democrats never USE IT, they LOSE IT with glee !
"But it lacks the votes to override a veto; in the Senate," -jrconner
So what? It's how they fight for it and how they show that they continue to fight for it that counts. Just putting up a stunt show and then giving up is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT courage, it's COWARDICE ! The Republicans have no problem getting Democrats to cave in on BAD policies such as Iraq War, Terri Schiavo, Big Brother Acts I and II, Roberts and SCalito, Bankruptcy Overhaul, Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthy Elite, etc ... and they never had the votes to overcome a filibuster but only if the Democrats bothered to filibuster in the first place !
"it lacks the votes to quash a filibuster." - jrconner
The GOP always lacked the votes to filibuster even when they were in control but they always won and in fact they always squashed filibusters and reduced voting to simple up or down majority votes on everything from Bush tax cuts to SCOTUS nominees so there's no excuse for Democrats to USE their majorities. Look buddy, if Democrats are going to make EXCUSES for caving in, they deserve to LOSE LOSE LOSE in 2008 and FOREVER !!!!
"It's not realistic to expect a party with so weak a majority to compel the President to knuckle under on the war." - jrconner
The GOP had weak majorities even during the KILLton years and yet they won on their side of BAD policies thanks to Clinton and the Democrats caving in. Again, a majority is a majority and if the Democrats choose not to USE it, they deserve to LOSE it !
"MoveOn should shut up" - jrconner
Excuse me, but MoveOn represents the wishes of the General Public compared to what the betrayers on Capitol Hill will ever come close to. Besides, we're talking about the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights being under SIEGE. This kind of attack on a people's interest organization is the slippery slope towards undermining America's freedom and turning this country into NAZI Germany of the 1930s and 1940s. Is this what the FUCK you want ?!?!?
"progressives -- all of us -- should redouble our efforts to get more Democrats elected to Congress." - jrconner
We already did that and look what we got in return. Focus on QUALITY not QUANTITY. It doesn't matter how big a majority the Democrats have. If they don't USE it, they must LOSE it !
"In politics as in life in general, greater numbers bring greater courage and lead to greater things. How big a number is required?" - jrconner
UTTER NONSENSE ! Again, focus on QUALITY not QUANTITY. The Republicans since 1968 have shown that even in their minority status, their abilities and courage to use what they have will always guarentee them victory no matter their majority/minority status. The first lesson in politics is USE IT OR LOSE IT, not worrying about getting a huge but useless "majority" !
"Majorities on the order of the majorities that passed Social Security, Medicare, and the Civil Rights Act of 1964." - jrconner
On Civil Rights, haven't you heard of the DIXIEcrats, you know the members of the Democratic Party who refused to allow any passage of civil rights ? LBJ was wise to get GOP legislators who were socially moderate to liberal on board to support the Civil Rights Act of 1964 so stop focusing on party only ! Had the Democrats been UNITED and not DIVIDED as they've always been and still continue to be, LBJ wouldn't have to be begging the GOP senators from the north for their votes !
jrconner
Bullshit! Didn't hear squat from meely mouthed folks like you when Rumsfeld fired 47 generals because they didn't agree with his Iraq strategy. Or when the draft dodging Neocons publically attacked and forcibly retired Gen. Shinsheki because he disagreed with Perle and Wolfowitz.
I won't even bother with how many generals Bush shitcanned because they disagreed with him.
So lay the sanctimonious crap, it only works on folks who don't know the back story.
And Move-on was right on target. It was about time that perfumed prince we call a general got caught carrying Bush's water on Iraq. And don't give me that crap about being decorated - most of the man's ribbons are for staff work not combat. And for medals they give out bronze stars to people in the pentagon for doing paper work.
BTW you can't defame a general who sold his integrity and his service out for a pat on the head from a gibbering thug like Bush and Cheney.
And guess what sparky, activists have been targeting Bush now for 6 years with no effect. Bush lives in a bubbble and couldn't care less.
Futhermore Mr.Clueless since you are evidently unaware, we do have something in this country something called the 1st Amendment which guarantees the right to free speech. No one can tell Move-On to shut up, they can say what they want.
And since you don't like what folks say, please move to Iran or North Korea. You'd fit right being a authoritarian prick and Bush apologist.
I think Mr Conner and Mr. Burke are both largely right on most of what they have to say. The difference is mostly style. I do disagree with Conner about Moveon.com. Why let Bush off the hook so he can continue his depredations unimpeded. Using others to take the heat for him has always been his MO. Gen. Betrayus is clearly fronting for Bush and some of the mainstream media are saying so too. American military people have either stayed out of politics or paid a heavy price like McArthur and others. Why should Betrayus be given a free pass? The Democrats that capitulated to this GOP stratagem are apparently dumb or fearful of the GOP labeling them pussies. Playing it safe in this instance might have been the best way to go. I like the opt out of voting on GOP stratagems idea. Like the German military used to say, "Live to fight another day". At least moveon thought outside the box of which more is needed. And it takes money to fight the corporatist dictatorship that is victimizing us. I doubt if moveon is going to get that money from corporations.
This is the part that gives it up.
"most people out here in the real world don't have any clue what "controversy" he's even talking about, nor will they ever."
Well I’m in Chile South America old Davie boy and it's all over the press down here. And like you, I too have contacted my friends back in the States and Europe and they tell me that this ”controvercy” is all people are taking about………….and the jive aint positive for MovingOn.
We really fucked this one up. And for Davie to try and rally us on by claiming this is not a big fucking mess in not the answer to shorten the many miles of bad road that lay ahead.
If we can't fess up to fucking this one up and continue on or deniel, we have no one else to blame but our selves for the continuing radio active fallout.
The very best thing that MovingOn could do at this very moment would be to formally apologize to the General in a full page NYT add. That would save miles of bad road ahead and do mountains of good in recuritiing more supporters. But like the Demarcates in Congress, MovingOn lacks this kind of character.
Now Davie, this is real-world wisdom from outside the beltway
Can you handle this Healthy Dose of Reality?
Jrconnor is off-base. He sounds like all those Washington insiders who are so isolated that they don't realize that the rest of the country disagrees with them. General Betrayus was a hand-picked shill for Iraq War and the Bush administration. Betrayus deserves the treatment he's received.
This outrage over the ad is completely manufactured. Conservatives are not upset because of an attack on a decorated soldier's military service. Were that the real reason, they would have been upset when the Swift-Boaters attacked Kerry for his service in Vietman. Their outrage is selective and thus hypocritical.
Bush and Betrayus are both pro-war. MoveOn launched an effective attack on these pro-war goons. THAT is why conservatives are so upset. They can't stand the fact that someone finally had the balls to stand up against them.
Marching on the streets, signing songs, and waving lighters does NOTHING to stop the war. Also, you can't sit in the ideological middle and appease both the pro-war and anti-war crowds, like the Democrats are ineffectively attempting. To truly be against the war, you have to be opposed to those who are pro-war. You have to fight them in the public square so our soldiers don't fight and die overseas.
Jrconnor, by supporting those attacking MoveOn, you are supporting the pro-war crowd, Bush, and the Republican Party. The same goes with the rest of the Democrats in Congress who helped pass that non-binding resolution. You are all traitors.
Right on the sweet spot Chris V. Put that in whatever you're smoking Franco.
jrconner unfortunately reminds me of the troops and their relatives in Hampton Roads where I live who know absolutely nothing about General BetrayUs. For a lot of these families though, while their closest ones are fighting an illegal war in Iraq or getting slaughtered in Afghanistan, the folks here are struggling to keep their jobs although I admit that they tend to get carried away by frivolous celebrity stories that have no relevancy on their well-being. Some vote Republican but interestingly despise the war itself, others vote Democrat but like the GOP voters are either pro-war or anti-war. Tell them about General BetrayUs and unless they don't know him, most will DESPISE him because, as pointed out in earlier replies, he's already known as a Bush yesman who replaced an honest general. Judging by jrconner's comments, he understands the cowards of the cave-in Democrats but FAILS to acknowledge that General BetrayUs is a DIShonorable "General" who deserves to have his medals stripped for playing politics against not only the troops but the rest of this country.
Franco, maybe your mind is totally divorced from reality but MoveOn owes no apology to Bush's yes puppet "General" BetrayUs. Pedal on loser !
Franco, maybe your mind is totally divorced from reality but MoveOn owes no apology to Bush's yes puppet "General" BetrayUs. Besides, BetrayUs has utterly no regard for the troops whatsoever or he wouldn't be going out on a limb to defend "progress" lies in Iraq even as it is clearer day after day that there is no progress in Iraq whatsoever. To speak the truth bold and clear is itself REAL patriotism and Moveon.org deserves full praise. Pedal on loser !
P.S.: You should be outraged at the fact that thanks to the US government, the Chilean dictator Pinochet got to FUCK your country to DEATH.
"MoveOn should shut up" - jrconner
Unfucking believable.
Since when has MoveOn ever NOT been against this war?
What part of this ad does NOT clearly reinforce their anti-war message? Or do you, like every other smug, insufferable and otherwise full of shit, pro-corporate welfare Gore style Democrat with an entitlement crowd mentality not recognize that BetrayUs is Bush's puppet and as such complicit in his role for this war?
MoveOn dressed down a five-star general in an informative ad for his involvement in a war that over eighty percent of the country now believes is wrong and you tell them to shut up?
You want to talk about politics. What about the politics of doing the right thing? Ever hear of something called civility and the social contract?
"Nader argued that there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between Bush and Gore -- he helped make the perfect the enemy of the good and became the author of a tragedy" - jrconner
And Nader was right. Pro corporatists and businessmen Gore and Bush have more in common than you care to think. Where is Gore's influence when his high tech pals in business and in Congress are paving the skids for more of our computer scientists to lose their jobs to cheap foreign labor? Or are you ok with that, too?
waltc, GrantBurkeVT, Chris V, just about all you guys here are great. And Franco, hey man, you might want to check out a better connection on that Bolivian marching powder you're blowing down there.
http://tootruthy.blogspot.com/2007/09/general-mccarthy-my-lips-move-with-bush.html
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